Motorists see red over speed camera confusion (From The Northern Echo)

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Motorists see red over speed camera confusion

10:48am Tuesday 13th May 2008

comment Comments (26) Have your say »

By Chris Brayshay »

HAVE YOUR SAY: Share your views about the camera problems on the A66

MOTORISTS are joining forces after being caught speeding by what they claim was an erring speed camera.

The group is getting together over shared experiences at roadworks on the outskirts of Stockton.

They allege a camera on the A66 at Long Newton was re-calibrated to catch drivers ignoring a 50mph speed limit for roadworks - ahead of road signs warning road users of the new speed restriction.

Motorist Linda Greenwood, who is consulting a solicitor tomorrow, says there were no speed limit signs in position ahead of the fixed speed camera at Long Newton, on the A66 - only after it.

Mrs Greenwood, of Redcar, east Cleveland, uses the dual carriageway to travel to Darlington, where she works. She said she was travelling at 64mph, slowing down for the 50mph warning in place for the construction of a new interchange, when she was caught on camera on April 7.

She said: "I thought nothing of it, as the 50-sign was still after the camera. I double checked this the next day. A week later the sign was moved, so it was before the camera. I received a notice of intent to prosecute on April 15.

Mrs Greenwood said: "I would say many people have received tickets in this period. I have written to the Chief Constable of Cleveland Constabulary.

Mrs Greenwood has details of 47 motorists who have received tickets or agreed to act as witnesses for her appeal.

She said: "We are getting together and sharing notes, because it's wrong. There was no sign in front of the camera. If it was correct I would just pay up, content to take the rap. But I was not speeding at that time."

She viewed the footage from the camera last Friday.

Cleveland Police say the 50mph sign spotted by motorists after the camera was a "repeater" sign - and a legal requirement.

A police spokeswoman said: "We are satisfied the contractor placed the 50mph entry speed signs prior to the camera and the signs were in play by noon on March 31."

Because of technical problems, the same camera was not in operation between 10am on Sunday March 31, and 11.41am April 3 when no one received a ticket.

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leanne pilkington, middlesbrough says...
11:44am Tue 13 May 08

my partner received a speeding ticket doing 64mph. we went and took a photo of the scene and we noticed that there was one 50mph sign on the left hand side of the road so if you were passing a truck you would not have seen it. the national speed limit sign was next to it and was not covered up and there was no new sign on the right hand side of the road but there seems to be one now. there was no way enough signs. when they were rebuilding the surtees bridge there was signs all over warning people of new speed restrictions. they carried this out all wrong no wonder people are unhappy. we are wanting to appeal but i have been told if you appeal and you fail then you have to pay £1000 in fine instead

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mj, darlington says...
11:47am Tue 13 May 08

i had the same problem on the 7th or the 8th. got flashed doing about about60 but ive never recived any letter yet strangely enough must of ran out of film it was flashing that much !! needs burning out like the other one opposite was !

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Stewart, Middlesbrough says...
1:14pm Tue 13 May 08

leanne pilkington wrote:
my partner received a speeding ticket doing 64mph. we went and took a photo of the scene and we noticed that there was one 50mph sign on the left hand side of the road so if you were passing a truck you would not have seen it. the national speed limit sign was next to it and was not covered up and there was no new sign on the right hand side of the road but there seems to be one now. there was no way enough signs. when they were rebuilding the surtees bridge there was signs all over warning people of new speed restrictions. they carried this out all wrong no wonder people are unhappy. we are wanting to appeal but i have been told if you appeal and you fail then you have to pay £1000 in fine instead

Leanne it's not strictly true that if you appeal and fail then you have to pay the £1000. This is the maximum you could receive but the likely outcome with this sort of offence is 3 points and a fine of around £100. I am affected by this also and have already had legal advice.

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K, darlington says...
2:20pm Tue 13 May 08

I received a ticket for doing 60mph, I drove to the layby infornt of the camera and took photos showing that the sign was 100m past the camera. The layby I was in was over 100m from the camera and there was no 50 sign that I could see in front of the lay by.
The police told me the first speeding sign has to be 144m infront of the camera, I have a photo showing that that was not there.

But like others I dont want to risk having a 1k court fees. Is there an email address we can contact so we can put our case together as a group? I heard that if they overturn one speeding fine they ahve to overturn them all.

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Dawn, Stockton says...
3:00pm Tue 13 May 08

I work in Darlington and was flashed by cameras on the A66 on the way to work. I was clocked doing 63 mph on 07/04/08 in what I maintain was a 70 mph zone. I was aware that there were speed cameras in the area and routinely slowed down when I saw the first 50moh sign. I wrote to Cleveland Police to object to my ticket but was informed that the signs were legally placed at the time of my ticket and that the fine remained in place. Has anyone successfully contested a speeding fine at the sight of the roadworks?

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dee, darlington says...
3:18pm Tue 13 May 08

I was clocked doing 63 mph on 07/04/08 in what I maintain was a 70 mph zone.

I am on your side with this but correct me if im wrong but that roads speed limit is 60mph anyway. Only motorways are 70mph

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Dawn, Stockton says...
3:45pm Tue 13 May 08

My understanding of the Highway Code is that in a National Speed limit area the speed limit is 70 mph on a dual carriageway but 60 mph on a single carriageway road.

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leanne pilkington, middlesbrough says...
3:53pm Tue 13 May 08

Stewart wrote:

leanne pilkington wrote: my partner received a speeding ticket doing 64mph. we went and took a photo of the scene and we noticed that there was one 50mph sign on the left hand side of the road so if you were passing a truck you would not have seen it. the national speed limit sign was next to it and was not covered up and there was no new sign on the right hand side of the road but there seems to be one now. there was no way enough signs. when they were rebuilding the surtees bridge there was signs all over warning people of new speed restrictions. they carried this out all wrong no wonder people are unhappy. we are wanting to appeal but i have been told if you appeal and you fail then you have to pay £1000 in fine instead
Leanne it\\\'s not strictly true that if you appeal and fail then you have to pay the £1000. This is the maximum you could receive but the likely outcome with this sort of offence is 3 points and a fine of around £100. I am affected by this also and have already had legal advice.

what legal advice have you had and what are you doing about your ticket?

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Paul, Stockton On Tees says...
5:17pm Tue 13 May 08

Sounds like a balls up by Cleveland Police. They will be the ones being left red-faced after all you motorists have challenged these tickets. What I'd say is find out what legislation is in place for signs and speed cameras. Homeoffice would be a good start. This will ring alarm bells in court when there's this many people saying the same thing.

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yan, darlington says...
5:19pm Tue 13 May 08

just pay it !!. they need your cash to pay for the road works. if you not british then you no have to pay.

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derek wood, stockton says...
6:20pm Tue 13 May 08

i to was one of the victims of the camera, slowing down to 50mph. doing 61 mph.on the 4 april. i use this road regulary and have always obeyed the 50 limit.i can not recall the 50mph signs at this point.

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dee, darlington says...
7:17pm Tue 13 May 08

My understanding of the Highway Code is that in a National Speed limit area the speed limit is 70 mph on a dual carriageway but 60 mph on a single carriageway road.

Sorry Dawn, you're correct, i've just looked it up. On a dual carriageway nation speed limit applies as long as it is separated by a central reservation. Hope you all get it sorted out soon.

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Richard, Darlington says...
8:18pm Tue 13 May 08

Travelling home from work on 10th April, i too was caught by this camera, doing 63mph. I did'nt know this until a Notice of Intended Prosecution landed on my doormat on the 18th April, after the signs had been replaced. I can honestly say i did not see any 50mph restriction signs before the speed camera. Even now the national speed limit signs are openly displayed just befor the 50mph restriction signs. Mrs Greenwood has my full support and i would gladly join her campaign to quash these fixed penalty notices.

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Claire, richmond says...
8:49pm Tue 13 May 08

I was also caught on the 7th April doing 63 mph as I slowed down for the roadworks. It was 2.30 in the morning and I was on my way home, tired, from work, so didn't turn round and go back to look, but I also am pretty sure that the sign was not in front of the camera. It definitely wasn't at the same time the night before, so I dispute the Police's claim that it was there from March 31st. I would be interested to see any photo evidence, as I understand that there actually have to be two speed restriction signs, one on each side of the road, for the camera to be operating legally (although I am no expert!. I have received a NIP, but haven't sent it back yet. Maybe we should all get together and compare notes, and think about getting some legal advice.

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neil, newton aycliffe says...
10:35pm Tue 13 May 08

My wife was flashed by camera at about 9pm on 6 april, she insists that there was no 50mph signs before the camera and put this in a letter but the police said that the signs where in place. Thinking that she couldn't prove it she has sent off a cheque for the fixed penalty. I'm tempted to phone the bank and block the cheque and challenge this but don't know where we stand as it looks like she has now admitted the offence by completing the form. I'm fuming that she is now going to be fined and our insurance is likely to increase due to the points on her licence. I would like to get together and fight this.

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Stewart, Middlesbrough says...
8:16am Wed 14 May 08

I am one of the 47 that Linda mentions in the article. As I said above I have already taken legal advice on this and have had a very favourable response from more than one solicitor. The police will maintain their stance right until this gets to court, and it will, so I would strongly advise anyone who has been 'hit' by this also to get in touch with Linda, or to e-mail me at stewart.thompson2@sc
ottwilson.com and I/we will tell you all we know so far.

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I. Hunter, says...
8:48am Wed 14 May 08

I wish to record the fact that my wife was also 'caught' on April 7th and she believes that she was legal as no signs appeared to be in place or she certainly wasn't aware of the 50 signs having been moved. I would also like to add that when a policeman discussed this with me over the phone he told me that the signs had been moved by the contractors on the 1st or 2nd April.This does not appear to fit in with the comments in todays Echo, where the 31st March is quoted by the Police.

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Paul Burt, darlington says...
10:54am Wed 14 May 08

I am another one who was caught out by the re-calibration of this camera. I was clocked on 3rd April at 64mph, while slowing down for the road works. I travel this route daily so am well aware of the speed restriction. I am of the opinion that this was a typically cynical trick to once again extract more money from motorists. This camera wasn't recalibrated until several months after the roadworks started, and the 50mph signs were placed after the camera during this period, thus lulling the motorist into a false sense of security. Unfortunately, I've paid my fine and got my 3 points (first for over 30 years!) so it's probably too late for me but good luck to the rest of you - I hope your appeal is sucessful.

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Linda Greenwood, Redcar says...
3:49pm Wed 14 May 08

Hello

I have been to see the solicitor today. I'd be happy to share info with anyone, along with Stewart, who wishes to fight this. Please email me on greenwood.linda@gmai
l.com

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chris jones, darligton says...
9:27pm Wed 14 May 08

what happens if you lie to the police,a fine will usually follow but if the rules are reversed then what? It seems the answer is they get published and believed. I travell the A66 four times a week and have never seen a speed limit sign before the speed camera until the police resited the sign.If as they say there has always been a sign before the camera then why was it nessesary to move the sign to a possition in front of the camera and where now is the sign that they "say" has always been there it seems to have dissapeared but may reappear if they read this mail.I hopr that those ticketed are not prosecuted as motorists pat enough without fabricated speeding fines.

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Nick Henderson, Newton Aycliffe says...
11:27am Tue 20 May 08

I am in the same position regarding this camera. However...When i was flashed my V5 document was sent to DVLA to change my address so i think the letter from the police was sent to my old address. So i take it no news is good news. I did go into a ploice station and tell them the issue. It was responded with a blunt reply of..Dont worry the system will track you down. I thought they only had so many days to get hold of you?

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Stewart, Middlesbrough says...
8:42pm Tue 20 May 08

So long as the N.I.P. is issued to you at your last known address within 14 days of the offence then they are complying with the law. Unfortunately for you in this case I think the copper was right.

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Stewart, Middlesbrough says...
7:50am Thu 29 May 08

Valerie Petitjean, you have a problem with receiving e-mails. Can you please e-mail either myself or Linda Greenwood with alternative contact details? Thank you

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Akhtar, says...
1:49am Fri 6 Jun 08

i have recently moved house and only a few days ago given mail by the lady who owns my house to my horror i was caught speeding twice by this camera. one at 60 and one at 64. which i have only found out. well gutted has one one set up a a group to fight this if please let me know

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Matthew Newman, Stockton says...
1:39pm Fri 27 Jun 08

I too was clocked doing 64 MPH on the very same day as you (Monday 7th April) at 06:45am on my way to work.

I live in Stockton and work for Orange in Darlington where I have been for the past 10 years, using the same route to drive to work every day. I too am adamant that the 50MPH speed limit signs were placed after the camera and not before on the day that my penalty was issued for. The signs had been there for some time and I always start to slow down for when they begin.
I was very frustrated but had no proof that I was right, and so I paid my fine and received the penalty points to avoid further costs which I cannot afford. However after seeing this article and hearing about the many other motorists in the same situation, I felt it was necessary to send these details. I am willing to do anything necessary to help fight this case.

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David Willis, Darlington says...
7:31pm Sun 29 Jun 08

got done on the 6th April for doing 59mph. I'm sure the signs were after the camera. I went in to the station 2 weeks ago to see the film and had a chat with the officer there. I mentioned the northern echo article and the officer just replied "watch this space!" "Would you really think a force like cleveland would make a mistake on this scale" I pointed out the case in 2003 where cleveland police lost cases in court one for signage and one because the chief ticket officers signiture wasn't printed on tickets. I've had my full motorcycle license just under 2 years so I ended up sending my license off , paying the fine and waiting for my three points. Can't afford to risk the 6 points and 1000 pound fine if you take it to court. I pointed out if one of you guys won in court proving the signs weren't there all motorists who have took points and fines would get them back.
"No as you have already committed the offence"
"but the offence wouldn't have been there to commit"

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